Thursday, 17 October 2013

Here are some extracts from History of the Conquest of Spain by the Arab-Moors, Volume 1 by Henry Coppée, published in 1881. You often find an unusual amount of truth in these old books written before the era of political correctness set in.
I have already spoken of one important constituent in the combinations of Ilyan [traitor general of the Goths, also known as Julian], upon which, as it has asserted itself in all periods of Spanish history, it seems proper to dwell a little more of more at length: I refer to the Jews. Nothing is sadder, while nothing is more unique, more entirely sui generis, in the history of the world than the separate and peculiar existence, of this injured and everywhere persecuted people, who have been -- especially since the Christian era, which their blind and cruel act of unbelief inaugurated -- despised, trodden down, hunted, exiled, tortured, and killed. And yet quite as striking is the moral power which they have wielded over their persecutors. While the Christians were slothful in business, slack in industry, and wasted what they had, the Jew gained and hoarded; "accommodated" the spendthrifts with usurious loans, and appealed for precedent to Jacob's stratagem, --
The attitude of the Jews.

"This was the way to thrive, and he was blessed; And thrift is blessing, if men steal it not."

It was only thus that they could revenge themselves on their oppressors. They were thus brought into relations, which must now be considered, at once with the Christians in Spain and with the Arab-Moors in Africa, and out of a combination of these relations
they emerge to view as a potent element in the Arabian conquest and after dominion in the Peninsula

Of their first coming thither there is no certain record. We may believe that when the fleets of Solomon made their voyages to Tharshish, -- "for the king had at sea a navy of Tharshish with the navy of Hiram: once in three years came the navy of Tharshish, bringing gold and silver, ivory, and apes and peacocks," -- a few of the adventurous Israelites remained in the Peninsula, and formed a nucleus for others who, when Judea was overrun by hostile armies from time to time, left their country, and wandering along the northern coast of Africa, and hearing tidings of their brethren in Spain, joined them there. We know that when the Romans conquered the Peninsula they found a considerable number of Israelites domiciled there. When, after the terrible siege of Jerusalem, by Vespasian and Titus, "one stone was not left upon another" of the city of their love and pride, crowds of exiles wandered westward to swell these numbers. Spain was a quiet Roman province, and there by their industry, frugality, and skill in business, the Jews made themselves useful members of society.

There were many who remained in northern Africa, and who were in constant and cordial intercourse with their brethren in Spain. There they might have fondly hoped that their wanderings were at an end: not so; fierce persecutions were in store for them there as elsewhere.

When Heraclius became emperor of the East, and determined to punish the Jews in his dominion, his ambassadors made a treaty with the Gothic monarch, "Sisebuto", one of the articles of which required that all recusant Jews should be driven out of Spain. This article was also embodied in the Visigothic Code. By its terms one year was given to them in which to decide whether they would confess Christ and be baptized, or be shaved and scourged, their property confiscated, and themselves forced to leave the country. In such a fearful contingency the majority became hypocrites. Ninety thousand are said to have submitted to baptism; but the enforced Christian rite was but a mask for the circumcision which was still secretly active, and they were thus transformed from quiet and orderly subjects into concealed and intriguing foes. But even those who patiently submitted were not, as we have seen, secure from humiliation and new indignity;they were despised for their apostasy, which was but a new proof to their tormentors of their sordid character.

The fourth council of Toledo, held in the year 633, indeed revoked the former decree requiring them to be baptized; but this apparent clemency was neutralized by the cruel requirements that the children of those who had accepted Christianity should be taken from their parents to be more fully educated in the Christian faith, and that those Jews who had married Christian women should either embrace the religion of their wives, or be separated from them. It was further decreed by the council that, in a judicial trial, no Jew could give evidence against a Christian.

This placed the Jews at a fearful disadvantage. The rigor increased. The sixth Toledan council,in 638, was more outspoken, and not much more cruel when it enacted "that Judaism would not be tolerated in the realm;" the eighth council prescribed new rigors against them. These enactments produced in part the desired effect; large numbers banished themselves, taking refuge in Africa from Christian baptism and persecution; there too they were ready to join any respectable conspiracy aginst the government and the people who had so constantly oppressed them. For this scarcely concealed purpose at least they received full credit; and when Egica ascended the throne in the year 687, they were under special surveillance, as it was averred that the Jews in Spain and Africa had entered into a special agreement to aid in the destruction of the Gothic monarchy. Thus, while to hate and persecute the Jews was considered an undoubted part of Christian duty in the abstract, their reported conspiracy added fuel to the flame. We may therefore fancy the astonishment of the Gothic nation and of the Christian world when Witiza, to serve his own ends as it was believed, removed the anathema and disabilities, and restored them partially at least to a condition of security and ease.

This apparent clemency disgusted his subjects, not so much because he set aside ecclesiastical canons and secular laws as because he dared to run counter to the universal and unrelenting prejudice which ignorantly based itself upon the claims of Him who had forgiven His enemies upon the cross.

Let us turn for a moment to see how they were regarded by the Arab-Moors. Their early relations to the creed of Mohammed have already been presented. We have seen that they had been powerful in Arabia before the advent of the prophet. Princes had embraced the Law of Moses, and the efforts of Mohammed were strenuous to convert them. When he found this a very difficult task, by the general claims of Islam, he asked for, and received, special revelations denouncing them: in numerous passages of the Koran their unbelief is rebuked and their fate declared. Notwithstanding this, they do not seem to have been regarded with the same disfavor as other unbelievers: they were among the first people allowed to compound for tribute; and, if still despised, were permitted to live in peace.

But now, in northwestern Africa, they had risen in importance. What rendered them dangerous to the Gothic Christians gave them new value in the eyes of the Arab-Moors, who were making ready to invade the Peninsula. These disaffected and confederate Jews formed a band of intelligent and useful auxiliaries in the scheme of the Moslem conquest. The martial sounds of the Moslem hosts made pleasant music in their ears. National allegiance they had none. They had the warrant of history that the change of masters would ameliorate their condition: they would aid and serve the kindest. Mohammedan Spain would be better than Christian Spain, because it would be more tolerant. For the Christian Messiah and for the prophet of Islam they had equal disregard; and thus the readers of later Spanish history will find that, in troublous times, they often, like soldiers of fortune, changed sides, and not unfrequently held the balance of power through the influence of their unity and their wealth. As a single illustration: When the Moslems began to persecute them for their money they turned to the Christians and brought to the throne Alfonso VI., of Castile and Leon, in the year 1085.

As we read of their checkered fortunes, we are struck with the fact that the important part they have played has been purposely ignored or belittled by both parties to the struggle; but it is not difficult to discover the truth, in spite of the reluctant mention or intentional silence of both Spanish and Arabian historians, -- the former prompted by religious rancor, and the latter by a pride of conquest which would not share the glory with such humble agents. It seems certain that, in concerting his plans for the conquest, Musa had early taken the Jews into his counsels: he received valuable information and gained important statistics from them which they had learned in the way of trade.

It is also wetted that after Count Ilyan had been in communication with certain disaffected Goths in Spain, he also sought the aid of the Jews, as an important element in carrying out his purpose. They gladly listened to both commanders, and probably supplied money, which their sagacity assured them was as safe and profitable an investment as in those turbulent times they could make.

We may now return for a moment to Roderik and the impending invasion as it actually took shape before his eyes. His newly acquired power seemed well established; his kingdom was a fair show. He could still defy "malice domestic and "foreign levy." He had indeed his suspicions of Gothic disaffection, and every day brought stronger corroboration of the presumptuous purpose of the Arab-Moors; he knew that the children of Israel were secretly leagued against him, but thus far he had no doubt of his ability to withstand all these united enemies, and place the Gothic power upon an eminence of authority and glory which it had never yet attained. If he had entertained misgivings as to the fidelity of Ilyan, he seems to have dismissed them.

...The final reduction of Cordova left Mugheyth free to employ his troops, in conjunction with those of Tarik, in such a manner as his chief should direct. It was now the end of August, 711. He placed, as had been done elsewhere, the local authority in the hands of the Jews of the town, the only people he could trust, and fortified his control by taking hostages from among the principal men. He made the palace his head-quarters, thus inaugurating its future grandeur and power. Retaining around him a sufficient garrison, he then spread the remainder of his troops through the Comarca, awaiting the orders of Tarik. From this time Cordova remained in Moorish hands, continually growing in power and splendor, until, with the Moorish dominion, it began to decline in the early years of the eleventh century.

...The advance of Tarik had been necessarily slow and cautious; but the case seemed hopeless. The fame of his victories had struck terror into all hearts. The chief nobles and warriors upon whom. the people might have relied in their extremity had fallen on the field. Those who had fled into Toledo only thought of further flight. And every day brought new testimony to the valor and number of the Moslems, and the ubiquity of their light and fleet horsemen. There were in the city no munitions of war: the paralyzed inhabitants had collected no store of provisions. There could be no hope of succor from without, and while, in the last resort, the Christians were going in sad procession to invoke the assistance of St. Leocadia in their great exigency, the vanguard of Tarik appeared before the town. If the Christians were in despair, the Jews, who had dissembled their joy, scarcely waited for his summons to counsel an immediate surrender.

(Gayangos further quotes, "that the Jews opened the gates of the city to the Moslems.")

...Meanwhile, the second division under Zeyd Ibn Kassed, had proceeded, without delay, to conquer Malaga and overrun its Comarca. He met with little resistance, and was soon able to send or take a strong detachment to Gharnatta, the Medina or capital of the district of Al-Birah. they found no opposition; and here, also, they found a large number of Jews, well advised of their coming and their purpose, ready to welcome the invader, and glad to find in the Berber ranks many of their brethren, who, although converted to Islam, retained the instincts of consanguineous blood. Into their hands, Zeyd gave the government of Gharnattah, assured of their energetic co-operation in the Moslem schemes. The number of Jews in that town and the power reposed in their hands, caused the place to be called, in all its earlier history, Gharnatta- al-Yahood, Granada of the Jews.
Source: History of the Conquest of Spain by the Arab-Moors, Volume 1 by Henry Coppée, 1881

See Part I of this series here.


Anonymous said...

Spanish Inquisition.
Russian Czar.
German Nazis.
Assads (both).
Saddam Hussein.
Khomeini (or is it Khamenei? whatever..)
Cheradenine Zakalwe.

It is official now – the list of enemies of Jewish people is complete and up to date!

Maria José said...

Footage obtained exclusively by CNN show the moment attackers entered the Westgate mall in Nairobi. Nima Elbagir reports.

Kenya shopping mall attack: Chilling new footage from inside Westgate shows terrorists casually gunning down innocent shoppers

The video also shows terrorists calmly chatting on their mobile phones and taking turns to kneel down and pray

Cheradenine Zakalwe said...

Do I get a pyramid?

Anonymous said...

These are not jokes.
You are ready to accuse the whole modern-day Jewry basing on anecdotal events happened 500 years ago, and denying everything that happened in between.

But the contribution from just a single Jew, Albert Einstein, made Europe what it is now, more than contribution from million of European commons. And there were hundreds if not thousands of such prominent Jews. Basically, look attentively at every branch of science, arts, music or technology and you are likely to find a Jew who made all the difference.

Even if Jews were absolute monsters in 15 century Spain, can it be different now?
Certainly it can, - Germans were ecstatically worshipping their own monsters and participated in the genocide en masse, only some 60 years ago, but today they are normal people.

After living in 5 countries (including USA and Israel) with large Jewish population, knowing many Jews and non-Jews, average folks of European descent, never saw any serious tension, on either side. Everyone was morally compatible with everyone else. That includes former USSR, in the late 80s, - among people not authorities, it was quite civilized.

And now comes CZ and declares that I came to Europe with sinister goal of installing the infrastructure of “genocide of whites”, that I collaborate with Islamists and Negroes, that I seek to wrestle power to Communist Jews who are paid by Capitalists Jews, for the sake of Zionist Jews, on the orders of Orthodox Jews and to the benefit of Atheist Jews.
Then come others adding that I am not European, not “white”, - read subhuman, - and must be removed.

First you write articles trying to create an image of The Eternal Evil Jew.
Then you try to reload responsibility for present-day Muslim colonization of Europe on Jews.
Then you write articles trying to remove the term “antisemite” from use.

Despite every such attempt is the failure, you don’t stop.
You are very systematic.

What will be next – an article on “Holocaust industry”? “suffering of Palestinians”? “Jewish lobby”?

Well, you can continue developing this theatrical character of evil clown, it is up to you.
(For those who aren't very bright, it might even go...)

Cheradenine Zakalwe said...

It was 1300 years ago, not 500.

I haven't made the fantastical claims you say I have made.

You Jews regularly make claims to the effect that we Europeans are all Nazis, overtly or covertly. You write books tracing the supposed roots of Nazism in our culture hundreds or even thousands of years in the past. But when we give you the same treatment, you don't like it, do you?

To the Oriental mind, factual truth doesn't matter. Like your fellow Middle Easterners, the Muslims, you prefer to see the world through the simplistic prism of your good-vs-evil fantasies. But to we Europeans, factual truth does matter. It is factually true that Jews collaborated with Muslims in their invasion of Spain. It is factually true that Jews were overwhelmingly disproportionately involved in Communism. It is factually true that, in Europe today, Jews are disproportionately involved in advocating multiculturalism, diversity and immigration, that they play the Hitler card against anyone who attempts to oppose this agenda, and that the islamisation of our continent is the most serious consequence of these ideas triumphing at the policy level. Any antipathy this inspires is a response to Jewish actions. It is not some mad evilness called antisemitism that arises for no reason.

More generally, I am interested in affirming the principle of nationalism by demonstrating that when different peoples live in the same land, they will eventually end up plotting against one another's interests. The Jews are not exceptional in this regard. Any peoples inhabiting the same territory that are intent on retaining their own distinctness will eventually find themselves involved in such conflicts. The Jews are exceptional only in that their extreme cleverness often makes their plots very effective.

Why don't you Jews assume some responsibility for your own actions, both historically and in the present day? We Europeans have done that. You have yet to reach that level of moral maturity.

Anonymous said...

So Jews are Middle-Easterners, thank you very much.
Because they came to Europe 1500 (not less) years ago they are non-Europeans.

Could you then argue, according to the same logic, that that Hungarians and Finns are also non-Europeans? Or, that all non-Amerindian population of America and non-Aboriginal people in Australia are not Americans or Australians? That movement of people happened only 500 years ago or less.

No-no-no you will say they are Americans and Australians of European origin.
Except Jews who are there, still, stubbornly, Middle-Easterners.
You know, Jews aren’t Europeans of Middle-Eastern origin, - that is wrong.

Participation of Jews in Communism now is “disproportionate” not “overwhelming”.
Thanks for that, too.
Can we then argue that the whole Western (eh, European?) Physics and Mathematics are “disproportionately” Jewish? As well as music, medicine, arts and literature.

Should we move paintings of Liebermann, Modigliani, Velazquez, Shagall, Serov, Levitan, - to the Middle-Eastern sections in Western museums?

Do Cohen brothers, Spielberg, and other good chunk of Hollywood - make a Middle-Eastern cinema?

Should we declare music of Mendelssohn, Schonberg, Strauss, Webber, “Les Miserables” – the Middle-Eastern music? Is Kafka a Middle-Eastern writer?

You become funnier and funnier CZ.

Cheradenine Zakalwe said...

"Could you then argue, according to the same logic, that that Hungarians and Finns are also non-Europeans? Or, that all non-Amerindian population of America and non-Aboriginal people in Australia are not Americans or Australians?"

Certainly. You can argue whatever you want. Whether your argument will be taken seriously, however, will depend on its intrinsic merits.

"Should we move paintings of Liebermann, Modigliani, Velazquez, Shagall, Serov, Levitan, - to the Middle-Eastern sections in Western museums?"
It is clear that you Jews do indeed obsessively chronicle the Jewishness of these people, regarding them as standing apart from the culture and traditions of the countries they were living in. Perhaps putting them in separate sections would make it less effortful for you to do that. Still, their work generally fits into a European cultural context, so that may be going too far.

Anonymous said...

You pose a series of trick questions in order to distract us away from weghty matters - l will ask you a question:
How many French jews consider themselves French first, how many German jews consider themselves German before anything else?
I would respectfully suggest divided loyalty and judaeism go hand in hand and unfortunately it is often the case that many jews do not place the best interests of the countries they reside in upper most in their thinking, unless they reside in israel. This is entirely understandable but unfortunately any observation that can be construed as anti-jewish is shouted down by people like you - no matter how insightful.
That's why there can never be a conversation with jews about these matters.

Anonymous said...

In the first world war German Jews fought against English Jews and French Jews.

Ivan said...

An intelligent person, after reviewing the evidence would conclude that there is a basis in the human nature, shared by Jews and non-Jews alike for the dislike that Europeans had for Jews. Here were Jews active in slavery, usury and treachery, turncoats at the first opportunity. Had it been any other people few would have problems identifying these, as reasons for the animosity displayed by the Europeans. But when the protagonists are Jews, they tend to look for chimerical reasons, anti-Semitism, Catholicism and so on, rather than to their own selves. A Jew it seems can do no wrong, and if he does this is to be explained by circumstances beyond his control. As the bloodthirsty activities of a large number of Jews in the nascent Soviet Union demonstrated, when it comes to clothing naked racial aggression in the garb of high-sounding phrases redolent of "brotherhood" and the "radiant future", Jewish propagandists have no equal. Today of course, the line being pushed with some success is that Jews hardly cared for Communism. But even a cursory reading of the record will show, that right until it became clear that Joseph Stalin
was planning a large-scale deportation of the Soviet Jews during the years of the Doctor's Plot, Jewish Communists were the most capable, and therefore deadliest, of apologists for Communism.

Anonymous said...

To the first anon response, the biggest enemy of the jews are they themselves. Zionism, multicult, the mutalation of childrens genitals etc.... The list is endless. Keep thinking you are chosen.... About time they al go to israel and leave us "goy" alone.

Anonymous said...

"It is clear that you Jews do indeed obsessively chronicle the Jewishness of these people,"

no, "it is clear" that obsession is yours, when you try to find a Jew among war criminals and "Jewish traitors" among ancient wandering tribes, back 1300 yeas ago when everyone was the foe of everyone else, and posing that as top significance.

what I try to emphasize when pointing at ethnic Jewishness of many decent, talented Westerners (who might be Judaic or Christian or secular) - it is THE HISTORY OF THE JEWISH PEOPLE.

That history certainly includes several psychotic persons in heavily psychotic 1918 Bavaria, Trotsky, Yagoda and other NKVD murderers of Jewish origin, - who were BTW then used as scapegoats by the succession of Communist rulers.

But what is more important to me - that includes very long list of human accomplishment, sharing knowledge and empathy, and collaboration between Jews and non-Jews.

Just today I visited Natoinal Gallery and occasionally walked near the "Circumcision" painting by Giovanni Bellini (1500).
You want it or not but it is the opinion of Roman-Christian genius painter about the origin of Christian messiah hero, - that he was a Jew.

So what do you propose to do - remove all that from use, ban Old Testament, all art and literature and music that mentions it?
If you want to be systematic in rejecting and persecuting Jewish heritage in Europe, you will inevitably come to this, then you will need to re-write handbooks on Physics and Mathematics with new references to "correct" personalia (the same way as Muslims are engaged in constant editing of Wikipedia for the same purpose), then Jewish art and music will be banned (nobody will ever hear "Zadok the Priest" and "Jerusalem"), the large part of Rembrandt will vanish from museums, then will come Nazi-style racial laws and death camps.

when constatnly trying to blow up Jewish malignancy, it will be the must for you to deny scale and importance of constructive Jewish civilization, as it won't fit to your cartoon.
by denying the truth, you will arrive to misery.
you are on the wrong way.

Cheradenine Zakalwe said...

Your post is a good illustration of the moral myopia of Jews and the invincible sense of being a chosen people, a unique master race in effect, that underlies it. It seems almost funny that merely citing some (as far as I know) undisputed, although not well known, historical facts could get me added to the list of "enemies of the Jewish people". But apparently it is so.

Your worldview is really no different from the Muslims. It is only your circumstances that are different, primarily the difference in numbers and what follows from it. Your hysteria about antisemitism is an almost exact equivalent of the "Islamophobia" mantra: unreasoning, emotional aggression intended to intimidate and preclude rational discourse. In both cases, it bespeaks the primitive moral outlook of peoples who are simply unable to look beyond the interests of their in-group to arrive at objective and rational moral judgements.

I have never denied the scale of Jewish achievement. On the contrary, I freely acknowledge it in every post and say clearly that it is that very capacity for exceptional achievement that makes you dangerous and has allowed you to inflict such extraordinary harm on we Europeans. The tendencies you exhibit are no different from those that would be exhibited by any other people living in the same circumstances of being an estranged, at-risk minority in someone else's country. But Pakis pursuing similar strategies aimed at undermining the peoplehood of the majority population just aren't going to be very successful with them. You can be.

Where did I say anything that even hinted at banning Jewish art or achievements? You are the one who first suggested that. You are the one who obsessively tracks down the Jewishness of people who would otherwise be classified as Americans, French, etc.

You say their achievements are part of the history of the Jewish people. So let me ask you something. If the Jewish people exist, and if their peoplehood is distinct from that of the people in whose countries they are living, do the French people exist, too, in a similar way? Do the German people exist? Do the Spanish and British peoples exist? If you accept that these European peoples exist, what defines their existence? Do you accept that the definition of their peoplehood must exclude Jews living in their countries since you insist those individuals belong to the "Jewish people"?

If you don't accept that these European peoplehoods exist and have some quality in them that excludes the Jews resident in those countries, then you are either denying the existence of the European peoples or relegating it to a lesser status than Jewish peoplehood. In either case, it is intellectual genocide.

It is that very same intellectual genocide that forms the basis of the actual genocide being inflicted on the peoples of Europe. You non-European peoples claim the right to a deep, ancestral peoplehood based on a mix of genetic ancestry, culture, religion, shared history and association with land. Yet you the deny the right of we Europeans to define ourselves in the same way. You insist that we may only define ourselves according to a government-allocated status called citizenship and demand that this status be allocated on the basis of birthplace. There is a word for this reductive definition of our peoplehood but not yours: genocide.

Anonymous said...

@ CZ
I'm not the person you are responding to, but I'm not entirely sure if it's fair to say that the worldview of the Muslims and Jews is exactly the same. As someone who is wrong-half Jewish, and raised entirely by my mother, the idea that I may be a member of some tribe never occurred to me. Judaism, the holocaust, were never mentioned even once growing up. However, the insane amount of anti-Jewish lies on the internet has been too provocative for me to resist. I am convinced that the situation is the other way around, tribalism is a response to an attack.

I do recall reading something about how Spaniards are actually 20% Jewish because of all the Jews that converted/hid during the inquisition. It also seems like a good number of Jews are so well integrated into France and Britain as to be indistinguishable. Just as someone can be Christian but equally a member of a country, there appears to be no reason why someone cannot be Jewish and a member of a country as well, those two things don't need to conflict.

Anonymous said...

CZ if you are going to continue rocking the boat you better move to the US where freedom of speech is still relatively protected- these jews will target you if you keep upsetting them : )

Anonymous said...

Though l must say l am grateful you published this - l hadn't heard about this, its yet another indictment. Jews helped the Persians take Jerusalem in 614, too

Anonymous said...

"..capacity for exceptional achievement that makes you dangerous and has allowed you to inflict such extraordinary harm on we Europeans.."

so what is your definition of "European"?
I asked many times, never got any response.

1) Jews are Europeans, just an ethnic group.
Used to be also quite tight religious group, - but not anymore.
There was long-term, deep cultural interdependence. I think more than half of European non-Jews bear Biblical first names. including Goebbels, whose ideas you try to serve here with fresh gravy of "Jews collaborating with Muslims".

2) if it was any, the scale of your "extraordinary harm" is many orders of magnitude smaller than the mainstream harm that non-Jewish Europeans used to inflict to each other all along (and to Jews).

3) Certainly all European people exist and every nation has full rights to install their own home rules. If, however, these rules are too xenophobic, barbaric, aggressive to neighbours, and yes - antisemitic, - that usually doesn't play well. In the modern time, such nation will be avoided as plague. Example - Saudi Arabia.

4) Yes dear - "capacity for exceptional achievement". That is it.
You are sitting in front of a computer which architecture was invented by a Jew, powered by the nuclear power station, where nuclear fission was discovered by Jewess, use search engine applying the algorithm developed by a Jew, argue about genes and DNA - discovered by Jews, and mentioning the term "genocide" that was also first coined by a Jew.
Without us, you are nothing.

Cheradenine Zakalwe said...

Virtually any European people could play that game, singling out things that have been invented by their nationals and claiming them as vital parts in the world as we know it. Scots invented the telephone, the television, the steam engine, free market economic theory, etc.

Jewish achievement is certainly exceptional on a per capita basis but in absolute terms it's not remotely close to that of European civilisation as a whole and it's ridiculous to pretend otherwise. European civilisation would have achieved global dominance without any input from Jews whatsoever. Spain achieved its golden age shortly after kicking the Jews out. Jews mainly inhabited eastern Europe, which has been a backwater for most of European history. If the Jews had been so special, why weren't they able to transform it into a leading centre of culture, prosperity and achievement? Jews mostly only immigrated to Britain and the US in the late 19th/early 20th centuries, after those countries had already achieved dominant positions in the world without any significant contributions from Jews.

On the other hand, if Jews had not been able to take parasitic advantage of European civilisation, they would just be another barbarised Middle Eastern tribe. The Oriental Jews living outside Europe achieved nothing exceptional. Face facts. It was you who needed us, not the other way around.

But your post is very revealing of the Jewish mindset when the mask comes off. Thanks for that.

Anonymous said...

You always see a half of the issue, always ready to blame.

Without you, we are nothing - the same formula applies vice versa.

European Rennaissance, Reformation, Enlightenment, Modernity - brought opportunities to all. But in the core, the civilization always had essential Hellenical, Judaic and Christian components.

Spanish "golden age" was due to the gold brought from America, had nothing to do with Jews.

For tiny persecuted minority, it wasn' possible " transform [Eastern Europe] into a leading centre of culture, prosperity and achievement..". It was the last land of serfs and masters in Europe. Dark ages were followed by 300 years of Mongol invasion. Even for natives, it wasn't happy place.

And the last one - from "parasitic" people one can't expect any achievements at all, definitely not "exceptional on a per capita basis". You are unable to argue consistently within your own post.

Hopefully with the next antisemitic article, you won't get an easy ride either.

Anonymous said...

Zionists can only see other peoples as submissive with no culture of their own,according to this law everything must somehow derive from 'Jewishness' even though they be complete opposites as Europeans are to Jews. This is a form of cultural and spiritual genocide. In any case the Muslims have been and will always be the foot soldiers of the Zionists, currently there are many tens of thousands of jihadis roaming around the Mediterranean sea basin yet none of them dare attacks the state of Israel despite the diversionary howls of 'liberating Jerusalem'-instead they embark on attacking the only nationalist and non Muslim governments in the region, namely Syria and Egypt including beheading and mutilation. It just goes to show in whose hands belong the forces of terrorism and barbarism. There is nothing so evil on this earth than the cabal of the Zionists.

Anonymous said...

The reason Zionist history (which is our textbook history) makes a European dark age is to contrast this with the so called Golden Age in Moorish Spain and to suggest that Europeans were no more than barbarians learning culture from a superior civilization where Jews were 'high up in the kingdom'. The facts do not concern the Zionists, their only aim is to denigrate European history and present it as inferior to their own, this is their mentality and their view of Europeans.

Cheradenine Zakalwe said...

"You always see a half of the issue, always ready to blame.

Without you, we are nothing - the same formula applies vice versa."

Saying it doesn't make it true. We never needed you. And we don't need you now. At best, you were a minor ornament to our civilisation; at worst, a corrupting element within it.

Anonymous said...

Unfortunately there was always that small rotten antisemitic "civilization" within normal Western civilization.

For the majority of Europeans, Holocaust wasn't "minor ornament", but serious moral challenge to humanity, the urge to look for better conscience.

So to you CZ and other enemies of Jewish people, I could only say what was always said to them - it is never too late to stop your animosity. The choice is yours.

Cheradenine Zakalwe said...

Yes, as I've said before, it's our extremely high ethical standards that make us superior to you, but also vulnerable to you. Imagine if Europeans acted in the way that Jews do: simply denying any wrong-doing attributed to us and hysterically attacking anyone who tried to raise the matter for discussion as "anti-European". How much moral growth would there be then? None. In other words, exactly the same amount of moral growth that Jews and Muslims have undergone with their "antisemitism" and "Islamophobia" get-out-of-jail-free cards. People who cannot admit fault cannot mature morally.

Anonymous said...

Not impressed by your self-declared "extremely high moral standards" and "superiority".
It all seem to converge to the constant attempts of wrenching the admittance of "fault" of being a target of persecution, to justify further persecution.

You are deaf to the voices of reason and goodwill.
So remain who you have chosen to be, a denier of reality, an apologist for evil, and the enemy.

In order not to be empty worded, here is the snapshot of the reality of evil Jews caught in the process of "inflicting extraordinary harm to Europeans".

(warning - contains uncensored images of Jews. might be offensive for some audiences)

Anonymous said...

I really admire the rational, non-emotional response most Europeans have towards challenging situations, it is a valid observation that they are the best at that, and it is also true that honesty is the first step towards improvement. However to conflate one virtue/strength with overall moral superiority just does not seem reasonable either. Other issues to consider are how to apply collective responsibility to a diverse group that passionately disagrees with each other, as well as the legend of the "self hating Jew" which seems to be the exception.

Anonymous said...

Jewish traitors from a more recent time. And don't forget Jonathan Pollard the worst case of treason in US history!

Anonymous said...

CZ, See how you being labeled now as a enemy of the jewish ppl. Either you with us or against us kind of thing i bet.... so sad. Always that victim element with them. Thats how they manipulate.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous 19 October 2013 14:57

first - CZ wasn't "labeled", a conclusion was made after long conversations.

second, - it was CZ who wrote, contrary to the facts, about "Jews inflicting extraordinary harm", so who is playing victimhood?

CZ's whole recent activity is directed at resurrecting victim status for European antisemites.

And, as the evidence of Jewish wrongdoings nowadays looks, well, not enough convincing if compared with wrongdoings of Islam - so you are reading here, these long articles about 12 century Spain.

Because by any means, Jews and Muslims must be joined in your mind and named evil, that is the idea. Just notice how many times they are put together.

So the jihadist ork Mohamed Merah who murdered little Jewish children in Toulouse, and the children themselves - because Jews - are systematically put at the same level of wrong.

It isn't just cheap lexical trick, but something much worse, - creeping justification for genocide, both in the past and in the future.

Cheradenine Zakalwe said...

"second, - it was CZ who wrote, contrary to the facts, about "Jews inflicting extraordinary harm", so who is playing victimhood?"

Contrary to facts? The facts cited in the article establish that Jews engaged in a conspiracy with Muslims to, in effect, steal their country away from the Spanish. Doesn't that constitute "extraordinary harm"? This led to mass slaughter, rape and enslavement. Facts cited elsewhere have established that Jews were overwhelmingly present in the Bolshevist movements and revolutionary regimes that liquidated millions of Europeans and blighted large parts of Europe for decades. Isn't that "extraordinary harm"? Today Jews are overwhelmingly dominant in pushing immigration and diversity and multiculturalism in all European societies, in effect telling us that we have no right to exist as distinct peoples. The practical consequence of this is rape, murder, jihad, terror. All of these actions constituted a form of genocide.

At no time have I denied or justified the slaughter of Jews by Europeans or called for more of it. Unlike you, I am able to acknowledge wrong-doing and mature morally by reflecting upon it.

You still fail to acknowledge any Jewish wrong-doing against other peoples from the dawn of the world until now. You demand the right to an identity based on genetic ancestry for yourself and your country (Israel) but deny that same right to every European people.

You deny the connection between immigration and islamisation and blame European "Nazis" when the Muslims you insisted we let in end up attacking you. Hypocrisy without limit. Moral blindness without peer.

At no time have you demonstrated any capacity to exercise moral judgement that goes beyond mere blind defence of the interests of your kin group. You have the same moral standard as a stone age tribe.

Anonymous said...

CZ: “..You demand the right to an identity based on genetic ancestry for yourself and your country (Israel) but deny that same right to every European people..”

where did I say that?
One thing is to have the right for country and identity. Please have as many as you can. Another is to use your country and identity as weapon for robbing, enslaving and humiliating others. Please don't do it to me and to anybody else. That is named Golden Rule. As one rabbi used to say, - " is the main tenet of Judaism. everyhting else is, a commentary."

CZ: “..You deny the connection between immigration and islamisation..”

?? what an unfortunate choice of words..
Yes there is no link between ABSTRACT NOTION of “immigration” and the POLITICAL FRAMEWORK of “islamization”, which became possible in the West as a result of the totalitarian, supremacist, aggressive and barbaric ideological and physical assault on the West, - powered by the tribal demography of the third world and paid by the oil money. That is the main causes, and the treason of Western elites is simply a symptom of weakness, a secondary issue. Hopefully undoable. And participation of Jews is the idiotic myth, I am very sorry.

CZ: “..At no time have you demonstrated any capacity to exercise moral judgement that goes beyond mere blind defence of the interests of your kin group..”

This is almost literally, a description of your own “ideal world” where every nationalism sits in its own kennel, so why do you blame me now for that?

But no, that wasn't my idea - if one scrolls back on this page, one can see the arguments in favour of cooperation between the nations, and the historical and cultural evidence for it.
And your arrogant response was that - "we don't need you now".

CZ: "..Jews were overwhelmingly present in the Bolshevist movements.."

So, Bolshevism is “overwhelmingly Jewish” once again, wasn’t it “disproportionate” just couple of posts above.. Another round of clownery.

Cheradenine Zakalwe said...

"where did I say that?"

You don't say it. That's just part of your hypocrisy. It's implicit in your behaviour. You react hysterically with cries of "Nazi" when Europeans even dare to hint at any self-definition based on ancestry; and you remain mute when Israel applies genetic tests to immigrants to determine their "Jewishness".

"One thing is to have the right for country and identity. Please have as many as you can. Another is to use your country and identity as weapon for robbing, enslaving and humiliating others. Please don't do it to me and to anybody else."
We're not doing that and we don't want to do that. We just want to be left on our own to enjoy our own culture with our own kind. And for that you brand us evil.

"That is named Golden Rule. As one rabbi used to say, - " is the main tenet of Judaism. everyhting else is, a commentary.""

Rubbish. At its core, Judaism, like Islam, is an in-group/out-group based moral code that advocates different standards of ethics in the treatment of others depending on whether they are members of the in-group or not. Judaism is essentially Islam minus the urge to acquire converts, indeed almost a refusal to accept converts. Another way of looking at it would be a religious wrapping around a system of eugenics. Christianity, at its core, is universalist.

"Yes there is no link between ABSTRACT NOTION of “immigration” and the POLITICAL FRAMEWORK of “islamization”, which became possible in the West as a result of the totalitarian, supremacist, aggressive and barbaric ideological and physical assault on the West, - powered by the tribal demography of the third world and paid by the oil money. That is the main causes, and the treason of Western elites is simply a symptom of weakness, a secondary issue."

Ah, the ridiculous Jewish-minted Bat Ye'or conspiracy theory again. I've already debunked part of that elsewhere and will be returning to it in future. Sorry, but any attempt to explain what happening by attributing treasonous of malevolent motivations to the people making the key decisions is ridiculous on its face. People aren't like that. The world isn't like that. Whether the conspiracy theory is that evil Jews support immigration to destroy the goy or evil westerners support immigration to get cheques from Arab sheikhs or some other twisted variant on the same theme, these notions deserve to be laughed out of court.

People, in general, need to feel that they are doing the right thing. I don't doubt that the European elites driving the status quo or the Jews pushing immigration and diversity sincerely believe they are doing a good thing and making the world a better place. They believe that because their minds have been possessed by bad ideas and false moral ideals. We need to discover what those bad ideas are and trace their roots in history. That's what I'm doing.

"This is almost literally, a description of your own “ideal world” where every nationalism sits in its own kennel, so why do you blame me now for that?"

Not at all. The equivalent would be if I said that Europeans had the right to invade Japan and take over the country and Japanese had no right to defend themselves against our attack. That is a moral myopia that grants differential moral entitlements to people based on whether they are members of the in-group or out-group. I have acknowledged European wrong-doing in many spheres, including in relation to the persecution of Jews. You haven't acknowledged any Jewish wrong-doing whatsoever.

Cheradenine Zakalwe said...

"But no, that wasn't my idea - if one scrolls back on this page, one can see the arguments in favour of cooperation between the nations, and the historical and cultural evidence for it."
I'm all in favour of cooperation between peoples, which is what you mean by nations. But for peoples to cooperate, they must first exist. Peoples can only exist if they have physical territory of their own, unless they develop a fanatic culture based on notions of purity and obsessive avoidance of contaminating contact with others, as Jews did. But no people should have to adopt a culture like that just to survive. It is a bereavement and an impairment. We can never know now what Jewish culture would have been if you had retained control of your own country. No culture develops healthily in threat conditions.

And your arrogant response was that - "we don't need you now"."
In response to your ridiculous insistence that we would have been nothing without you. Aristotle would never have pondered, Michelangelo would never have painted, Shakespeare would never have written, Beethoven would never have played ... without the Jews.

Anonymous said...

"..they develop a fanatic culture based on notions of purity and obsessive avoidance of contaminating contact with others, as Jews did.."

I agree with that, it was racist and self-centered culture for hundreds of years, with many fears and obsessions, but not devoted exclusively to plots and evil deeds against goyim. A lot of attention was paid to self-improvement.

And, to blame Jews for the defensiveness in the face of persecution - doesn't seem like very moral thing to do. Maybe this is exactly the place where you can slow down a bit.

Not arguing about Aristotle, I would like to note that yes, as Michelangelo, Shakespeare, Beethoven, and others were all Christians by raise and by spirit, therefore no way they could avoid Judaic knowledge and influence. This is where Verdi's "Hebrew Slaves" are from. The Hebrew name "Michael" which is the part of Michelangelo's name, literally translates as "the one who is like God". His friend and rival's name was "God has healed". Now it is the famous tennis player. :).

Anonymous said...

CZ: We just want to be left on our own to enjoy our own culture with our own kind.

CZ: Judaism is .. a religious wrapping around a system of eugenics. Christianity, at its core, is universalist.

Other words, the self preservation of European antisemites (sorry still don’t understand what you mean by “Europeans”) – that is good, moral and paramount, but you are ready to blame the Jews for the very same idea of self-preservation?
Damn you are prolific writer..

Judaism doesn’t contain doctrines like Jihad, Dar-al-Islam and Dar-al-Harb, and Dawa, to name few - but I’m not up to defending beauties of Judaism here.
In my life, Jews were always rather ethnicity than religion.

Cheradenine Zakalwe said...

"Other words, the self preservation of European antisemites (sorry still don’t understand what you mean by “Europeans”) – that is good, moral and paramount, but you are ready to blame the Jews for the very same idea of self-preservation?"

I don't blame them for it at all. I admire the Jews for the vigour with which they defend their own peoplehood. I simply object to the hypocrisy involved in their attacks on any European people that tries to do the same.

Anonymous said...

I would be grateful for any clear-cut example of that hypocricy.

Sort of - when somebody said this and that, and then did this and that, and the "extraordinary harm" was inflicted to all antisemites, and all the Jews rejoiced.

Eeh.. and your "because they don't say they definitely mean it" argument looks not very convincing, maybe not only to me.

As I said before, there is balance between needs of ethnic preservation and progress, and that includes genetic progress.

So I'm not big fan of cultural and genetic isolationism, but my firm conviction is that nothing should be imposed by force. If you want isolation, - try it, result is yours.
Modern-day Jews BTW, if not abandoned old-style intolerant Judeo-centrism in full, then at least found many softer versions.

Anonymous said...

Breaking news: genetically, Jews are Europeans.

"Long-standing controversy settled – DNA shows Ashkenazim female line descended from southern and western Europe, NOT the Near East"

"The simplest explanation was that it was mainly women who converted and they married with men who'd come from the Near East"

The next question is - why did Jewish males migrate from Palestine to Europe, about 2000 years ago?
And the answer is most likely, - because they were hunted and exterminated there (or at least exiled) by the Romans after the First Jewish war (66-73 AD) and then Bar Kokhba uprising (132 AD).

Anonymous said...

Ashkenazi Jews are not racial aliens (though they sometimes act like it). They should be working with their own racial kin not against them.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous @ 07:35: Far more likely that the females were raped, not 'converted' in any theological sense, by jewish males whom you state migrated from Palestine to Europe. Jewish slave traders were involved extensively in the ancient world with slaving, including from Europe, and continued so, also providing ships, when the Moslems conquered and enslaved peoples, especially in Africa, and this went on up to the mid-19th century with the slave trade into North and South America.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous 20 October 2013 15:47

As usual having little actual knowledge on the subject is a pre-requisite for someone who is ready to blame the Jews.

First of all, as one can see from the main article, - there were only 4 “founder” females.

Next - these were the times when ALL states and empires were slave-owning.
Even if there were Jews in slave trade, it wasn't different from what others were doing.

Some of the people living outside large empires (barbarians) were closer to the late Bronze or even Neolithic type of tribal order and that was likely even worse than slavery.

Jews themselves were slaves in Egypt, then in Babylon.
That was way before the times we are talking about, and well-documented.

But this looks like complete fantasy:
“Jewish slave traders were involved extensively in the ancient world with slaving”

Do you have any historical evidence?

Anonymous said...

There's quite a bit of historical detail and evidence, much of it by Jewish scholars, on the internet; and Jews and Judaism in the US: A Documentary History (1983) by Rabbi Marc Lee Raphael. Jews were involved as slave ship owners; in the Dutch West Indies in the sugar plantations (the transatlantic slave trade was driven by sugar cane); Sephardic Jews in Brazil, and throughout the American South (including many leaders of the Southern Confederate States of America); in the 5th-8th centuries, the Jews replaced the Syrians as international slave traders, extending into northeastern Europe and to the Slavic countries where it was predominantly Christians who were enslaved and sold on into the Middle East. As far as the "Babylonian captivity" is concerned, that lasted scarcely the Biblical "three score years and ten" reckoned as a man's lifetime (70 years), hardly comparable well over a millenia and a half of Jewish involvement in the world slave trade.

Anonymous said...

your first ref is from antisemitic website, not credible.

your second ref leads to this quite strange article in Wikipedia:

It draws many facts of participation of Jews in slave trade but states that there was no much of a difference between Jews, Christians and Muslims in that regard.

Romans and Germainc tribes considered Slavic people as slaves, as these tribes were too weak militarily. The very ethymology "Slave", "Sklav", "Slav" suggests that.

Anyway, these were dark times. It might be that some Jews were slave-owners, some slave-traders, but there is no evidence that it was exclusively Jewish occupation as you imply.

Citation form Wiki:

Several scholarly works have been published[2] to rebut the antisemitic canard of Jewish domination of the slave trade in Medieval Europe, Africa, and/or the Americas,[3][4][5][6] and that Jews had no major or continuing impact on the history of New World slavery.[5][6][7][8] They possessed far fewer slaves than non-Jews in every British territory in North America and the Caribbean, and in no period did they play a leading role as financiers, shipowners, or factors in the transatlantic or Caribbean slave trades.[9]

It is currently known that American mainland colonial Jews played a merely proportionate role in the importation of slaves from Africa and a marginal role as slave sellers, although their involvement in the Brazilian and Caribbean trade is believed to be considerably more significant.[10]Jason H. Silverman, a historian of slavery, describes the part of Jews in slave trading in the southern United states as "minuscule", and writes that the historical rise and fall of slavery in the United States would not have been affected at all had there been no Jews living in the American South.[11] Jews accounted for 1.25% of all Southern slave owners, and were not significantly different from other slave owners in their treatment of slaves.[11]

Anonymous said...

You're quoting from the Simon Wiesenthal Center, which amounts to shooting yourself in your own foot. You are also perfectly illustrating the inability of certain people to deal with unpalatable facts which challenge a rather overworked and, in the age of the internet, unsustainable false image. 'anti-semitic' is in the same lexicon as 'racialism', 'racism', 'xenophobic', 'far-right', 'homophobic', 'islamophobic' et al as an attempt to silence debate and discussion.

Anonymous said...

I took citation from Wikipedia, don't know anything about "Simon Wiesenthal Center".

Although "Wiesenthal" means, likely, "I see a dale".
Very nice name.

Such terms as "xenophobia" and "homophobia" are OK.
"racism" and "antisemitism" are the specific cases of "xenophobia".

I will draw just one simple logical argument not in favour of your "Jewish Slave Trade" mantra.

To organize the slave trade on a massive scale, one needs or a) strong military force, or b) the support of the powerful government that has such force in its disposal.
Jews never had either.

Anonymous said...

Yes they are totaly defenceless.... lol. Thats why they have the world hostage with the "samson" option. They where a big part of the "trade" weither u like it or not. VOC was also very jewish in nature... go read a book plz.

Anonymous said...

To Anonymous @ 22:49: A successful slave trade is not necessarily dependent upon a strong military force nor the support of a powerful government. Monies, contacts (regional and international, especially amongst fellow believers), ships, captains and crews, tribal leaders eager to transmit human booty into other resources, trading companies (Anonmyous' reference at 14:34 to VOC is probably to the Dutch East India Company), and also historical animosity towards the enslaved peoples (Christians primarily) also contribute to this trade. No one is making a case that one group alone is responsible; however, as the Hadiths relate, early followers of Mohamed were converts from Judaism (Rabbis, and they also wrote portions of the tafsirs, the Islamic exegesis) and Islam became the main enabler and recipient of, the slave trade and well into the mid-19th century, the Jewish contribution is undeniable and well documented.

Anonymous said...

first you roll out "overwhelmingly Jewish Bolsheviks".
then the "destruction of 12 century Spain by Jews".
then "Judaism conversion rapes".
then "Jewish slave trade".
then "Muslim rabbis".
before that, it was "the murder of Christian children".
and "collaboration of Jews with Muslims" in present day Europe.

impressive stuff, never saw such large amount of intellectual fecalia gathered in one place.

and all this display of lies and demagoguery is accompanied by the nauseous muezzin calls to "admitting the truth", - meaning, to accept antisemitic justification for the XX century Holocaust, and by that to pave the roads to the next ones.

so I repeat - you are psychotic enemies and talking to you is hopeless.
you behave exactly as jihadis.
actually, jihadis would agree with the majority of your insinuations.

it is good to have clarity.

Cheradenine Zakalwe said...

Yes, it's good to have clarity. Seeing the responses in these threads, it becomes clear to me that Jews are simply incapable of rational, evidence-based discourse. Even when presented with historical accounts written by Jews themselves, you deny the basic facts. Your minds are so possessed by simplistic good-vs-evil narratives, persecution fantasies and the sense of being a special people incapable of fault, that no amount of factual evidence is going to alter your preconceptions.

I find this all deeply disturbing, not only for what it reveals about Jews, but for what it reveals about human nature. Somehow we have grown used to this kind of behaviour from Muslims. We see them as unintelligent and uninformed and have come to expect them to be impervious to reason and truth. But to see exactly the same kind of responses from people who are clearly intelligent is deeply disquieting.

If there is one good thing about it, though, it demonstrates the invincible vigour of the ethnic imperative. We Europeans cannot afford to ignore ethnicity because no non-European people is going to. As the Jewish responses in this thread make clear, ethnicity trumps reason, trumps morality, trumps evidence every time. We cannot allow our societies to be dominated by alien peoples pursuing their own narrow ethnic agendas at our expense while we delude ourselves into believing that they will ultimately suppress their own kin preference instincts and see reason or be moral.

Anonymous said...

It is a fact that Jews paved the way for the Muslim to enter Spain. They had good reason since they were respected by those of the Muslim faith and not by Christians. Things went awry between the two religions when the people who lived in Palestine were displaced at the creation of the state of Israel.

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