Saturday, 7 September 2013

Almost everyone in the Counterjihad movement prefers to avert their eyes from these facts. I refuse to. Counterjihadists complain about the unwillingness of the mainstream media to acknowledge facts that challenge their preconceptions. Yet they themselves exhibit exactly the same tendencies when confronted with evidence that takes them out of their comfort zone.

It's notable that many of the American websites that used to link to me often have stopped doing so since I first raised this topic for discussion. For some in the Counterjihad movement, there are clearly higher priorities than resisting Islam. Even intimidated Europeans prefer to avert their eyes. When a people is unwilling to assert and defend its own interests, it is already conquered. The actual occupation of their land by aliens, which will occur later, is simply the physical realisation of the condition that already exists in their minds.
Jews were now the only non-Catholic population of any significance after the regime’s formal renunciation of Arianism. The Jews had lived in Hispania before recorded history, but their numbers had made a quantum leap after the brutal reduction of Judea by the Roman legions in 70 CE. Tens of thousands of Jews were dispersed to Hispania after the razing of the Temple of Solomon, decimation of the population, and obliteration of the name Judea from the imperial map. Not only were the Jews not amenable to voluntary conversion, their religion exerted more than a negligible appeal among the kingdom’s common folk. Their existence outside what the Church fathers called the societas fidelium was both an affront to the consolidating exigencies of the monarchy and a troubling encouragement to recalcitrant Arian nobles, of whom there remained a considerable number after the Third Toledo Council. Since slaves provided a major source of wealth to the kingdom, the ownership of so many of them by Jewish landholders intensified official anti-Semitism. Jewish wealth in land and slaves meant relative independence, moreover: self-sufficiency vis-à-vis the Visigothic state and autonomy in religious matters. With the Catholic conversion of King Reccared, anti-Semitism became the official ideology of the regime, with the avaricious corollary of one monarch after another coveting the slaves and landed property of the Jewish communities in and around Toledo, Tarragona, Merida, and those long established in Baetica and Catalunya.

To King Sisibut, the existence of a large, prosperous Jewish population was utterly incompatible with the unitary Christian kingdom he was devoted to building. To that exalted purpose, he needed look only to Constantinople to find a well-tried formula for state-enforced religious conformity. How much influence Heraclius’s treaty negotiators may have exerted on Visigothic anti-Semitism is impossible now to know beyond circumstantial inference. That there was much similarity between the policies at Constantinople and Toledo is clear. St. Isidore of Seville condoned Sisibut’s conversion objectives on the canonical authority of Saints Paul and Augustine, though he was somewhat squeamish about the means, regretting that Sisibut “forced [the Jews] by power when he should have roused them by the doctrine of faith.” Tens of thousands of Jews converted to Catholicism under Sisibut’s terrible sanctions.

The bishops of the Catholic Church of Hispania both promoted and acceded to restrictions upon the liberties of the Jews that ranged from inconvenient to outrageous. The Sixth Toledo Council in 638 CE promulgated the Lex Visigothorum, stating that Jews, “whether baptized or not baptized,” were barred from giving testimony in court. Other councils followed, forbidding the celebration of Passover, observance of dietary laws, and the performance of marriage ceremonies. In addition to being disqualified from public service and the learned professions, they were even forbidden the ownership of Christian slaves or the hire of Christian servants. Still, enforcement of these and other such proscriptions was likely to have been inconsistently applied or widely ignored and evaded. Among the general population, unfriendly feelings toward Jews seem to have been casual rather than intense. The anti-Semitic resolve of the monarchy came to a feverish pitch, however, in the final two decades of Visigothic rule. A growing deference on the part of Hispanic prelates to the rites and prejudices of Greek orthodoxy contributed to the surge in extremism. Time frames for conversion or expulsion were announced.
King Egica’s (r. 687–702) anti-Semitic virulence was remarkable even for a Visigoth. At the Sixteenth Toledo Council in November 695, his demands that the high clergy assent to the imposition of draconian measures presented Jews with intolerable dilemmas: emigration; forced conversion; impoverishment; and worse. Some emigrated, more converted (temporarily), while some of their leaders reached out to their coreligionists in North Africa and Mesopotamia. In ways that now elude precision, it seems obvious that Jews appealed to Arabs for relief from the Visigothic “final solution.” “We can hardly doubt that the Jews of Spain looked upon the Arabs as liberators,” the distinguished medievalist Richard Fletcher concluded. A furious Egica had reached the same conclusion and promptly instigated the Seventeenth Toledo Council, at which grave charges of treasonous plottings within and without the realm were drawn up against Jews. Evidence was presented of secret Jewish appeals for help in undermining the monarchy—those secret contacts with Jewish communities in Egypt and with the Muslims who were just then adding North Africa to the Dar al-Islam. It was recalled that Jews had sided with Muslims during the second rashidun caliph’s siege of Jerusalem. The council’s decrees were pitiless. Barring conversion, all adult Jews were to be sold as slaves and their children distributed among Christian families.
So Jews probably reached out to Muslims to bring about the Arab invasion in the first place. As the excerpts below make clear, they also actively and eagerly collaborated with Muslims during the invasion itself. There are many accounts of fortified Spanish cities being mysteriously captured without a fight, as if an enemy within had opened the gates, otherwise facilitated entry or undermined the possibility of resistance.

The capture of Cordoba:
Based on the count’s advice, Tariq detached some seven hundred cavalry under the command of the Greek mawla (convert) Mughith al-Rumi (“the Roman”) for a lightning run north to occupy Cordoba before the Visigoths could reorganize to the rear of the Berber line of advance. As Tariq and the bulk of the Muslim army made their way eastward along the old Roman road through Jaén toward Toledo, Mughith reached the banks of the Guadalquivir. They were greeted there by an unnerving panorama on the other side of the river. Engirdling Cordoba, capital of the old imperial province of Hispania Ulterior, were some of the most formidable fortifications built during the Roman occupation.
Had those walls been in good repair and manned by a garrison two or three times larger than the four or five hundred defenders, the Cordovans might well have kept their badly provisioned attackers at bay until the harsh Andalusian winter. When Mughith’s men finally forced their way into the city through an old, unrepaired breach in the walls, they found themselves welcomed by a large portion of the populace, the Jews in particular. The Visigoth governor, along with the notables and the garrison, had fled the city. Catching up with them on the Toledo road, Berber cavalry slaughtered them to a man, setting an example for the native population that Muslims had followed elsewhere: generosity toward those who surrendered; death to those who resisted. More severed heads and finely wrought weaponry were collected for the caliph’s bulging Damascus consignment.

Returning to Cordoba immediately after the slaughter, Mughith established a precedent of historic political and religious impact. He assembled all of the Jews in the city and left them, “together with willing Christians and a small detachment of Muslims,” in charge of Cordoba’s defenses. Mughith’s precedent established the conditions for the vaunted Muslim-Judeo-Christian interdependence that was to distinguish Islam in Iberia for several centuries. His collaborative precedent was also, to be sure, an astute response to the numbers on the ground—a Muslim force of infinitesimal size pragmatically manufacturing auxiliaries from the local population. King Egica’s insensate proscriptions casting all unconverted Jews into slavery and confiscating their property had driven these people to save themselves by reaching out to the conquering Arabs. After so many years of living under the Damoclean sword of property expropriation, forced conversion, and expulsion, Jews throughout Hispania welcomed the Muslim invaders as deliverers.

The capture of Toledo:
...Toledo should have been an invading army’s nightmare. Recognizing the outstanding strategic advantages of the location, the Romans had turned the granite mountain heights arcing above the encircling Tagus River into an aerial citadel that became the iconic signature of Castile. For similar reasons, Visigoth monarchs from Leovigild onward had made Toletum their capital in the middle of the sixth century. The city loomed above its natural setting like a stone wreath fixed to the tip of an obelisk, a phenomenon both unreal and solid. The steepness of the approaches and the thickness of its stone defenses ought to have made the capital practically unconquerable by a few thousand cavalry without siege engines. Instead of finding a heavily defended bastion locked against an enemy, however, Tariq’s Berbers rode into a city largely deserted except for its Jews. To safeguard the holiest symbol of their Catholic faith, the Toledo churchmen, escorted by a small cohort of armed nobles, had fled with the cathedral’s high altar for a fortified place the Muslims would call Wadi al-Hijara (“river of stones)—Guadalajara—some three days’ ride from the capital and but a few miles from the village of Madrid.

Tariq’s cavalry raced out of Toledo onto the long Roman road running northeast across the peninsula. The Muslims had stopped long enough to water their horses and broker an arrangement with the city’s leading Jews.

The capture of Seville:
The second wave of some twenty cavalry units, each under its own regimental raya (flag), thundered into Cadiz province. A rendezvous at Toledo with Tariq was the ultimate objective, but reduction of Sevilla, the principal city of Roman Hispania, was a paramount priority. The Muslim army appears to have encountered about three months of stiff resistance from remnants of the Visigoth army, although accounts of the intensity vary. Once the city finally capitulated, sometime during the winter of 712–13, the invaders followed Mughith al-Rumi’s precedent at Cordoba. Musa left the Jews to run Sevilla with the help of a small detachment of muqatila.

In contrast to the amirate’s often-demeaning treatment of its Berber population, a paradox was discernible in ‘Abd al-Rahman’s continuation of liberality to the Jews. Their strategic value in the consolidation of Muslim rule had been enormous. From the first moment of contact, the Jews of Sefarad (Spain) had collaborated with the Arab conquerors. In places where their numbers were significant, such as Cordoba, Merida, Ecija, Jaén, Toledo, and Cuenca, that collaboration had sometimes been crucial to Muslim success. Entire regions of the newly conquered realm were later secured by wholesale relocation of Jews to sparsely populated places along the Mediterranean coast (Malaga, Granada, Almeria, Alicante) and to urban centers whose Catholic character they diluted by their numbers (Murcia, Pamplona, Guadalajara, Salamanca, Zaragoza).

In close contact with other Jewish communities thriving in the Mesopotamian watershed, distributed across North Africa, and positioned along the Mediterranean littoral, Andalusian Jews possessed unique assets for their Muslim conquerors. Indeed, the quintessentially urban Jews contributed more than loyalty, wealth, and numbers to the amirate; they showed the Muslims how to run it—so competently, indeed, that as time passed, several would rise to the high office of vizir and, in at least one spectacular instance, hajib (chancellor) of an Andalusian principality. The Arabs—desert warriors to whom the minutiae of governing had initially been less than congenial—found Jews to be indispensable as scribes, clerks, physicians, and court officials. Berbers fought like tigers, but their administrative skills were almost nonexistent.

...The amir was served by a well-run cadre led by Umayyad relatives and staffed by Syrians, muwalladun, Jews, and Mozarabs who penetrated the farthest towns and cities in stealthy enforcement of Cordoba’s authority. White slaves (saqaliba) supplied by the network of Jewish merchants, made up the bulk of the professional army.4 The shurta, a highly disciplined black African police force, guaranteed the Falcon’s personal safety as well as the security of the denizens of one of the world’s greatest and often-volatile cities.
Source: God's Crucible by David Levering Lewis

So the Jews in Spain were enslaving European Christians. This provoked the irritation of other European Christians, who then took measures against the Jews. This caused the Jews to reach out to their fellow Jews abroad and to the Arabs, urging them to invade Spain and bring this Christian oppression to an end. When they did so, the Jews eagerly collaborated with the Muslims, acting as administrators for the conquered cities and realm.

The parallels with our own time are striking, with Jewish intellectuals having paved the way for the modern Muslim conquest by pushing the benefits of immigration, diversity, tolerance, special minority protection, etc., denigrating nationalism and wielding the Nazi stick forcefully against anyone bold enough to dissent.

It's interesting that different people could look at this same set of facts, however, and see them as confirming their own, completely distinct, points of view. A multicultist or a Jew could look at them and conclude that these are the misfortunes that deservedly befall the intolerant: Europeans did bad things to Jews therefore their lands were invaded.

A nationalist like me looks at them, however, and sees confirmation of the core principle of nationalism, namely that different peoples should live in different lands. When you violate that principle, bad things start to happen.

Of course it all ended catastrophically for the Jews the first time around, too. The Muslims eventually oppressed them and the Christians ultimately took their country back and expelled them. This, too, then would be comparable to the modern experience, in which multiculturalism and diversity hasn't worked out too well for the Jews in practice.

Maimonides, the great Jewish sage of the Middle Ages, was born in Cordoba but driven out of the city by Mohammedans, possibly after having been forced to convert to Islam to save his life. When I visited the Jewish museum in Cordoba a few months ago, I was surprised to find that Maimonides had developed a doctrine similar to the Muslim doctrine of Taqqiyah, arguing that Jews should be allowed to dissimulate their religion in times of adversity. Most likely, this was in response to his own direct experience of Muslim "convivencia".

Maimonides said this of the Mohammedans:
“You know, my brethren, that on account of our sins God has cast us into the midst of this people, the nation of Ishmael [Muslims], who persecute us severely, and who devise ways to harm us and to debase us… No nation has ever done more harm to Israel. None has matched it in debasing and humiliating us. None has been able to reduce us as they have… We have borne their imposed degradation, their lies, and absurdities, which are beyond human power to bear.”

The empathy gap between different peoples inevitably causes them to treat others differently than they treat their own kind. This differential treatment gives rise to antagonisms and conflicts of interest. These antagonisms and conflicts of interest ultimately express themselves in the form of violence and oppression. The way to solve this problem is not to strive for some utopian, unrealisable ideal of tolerance. It is to grant distinct peoples their own lands where they can live under their own governments in their own space among their own kind; to minimise diversity; to block immigration; to maximise homogeneity. Those are the practical steps that will create the conditions in which unpleasant things are least likely to happen.

Unfortunately, the ideology of our ruling caste demands the exact opposite.


Anonymous said...

Could this solve the problem?

mementoil said...

I enter this blog regularly in order to keep up with the true state of affairs in Europe, which is not being reported in most main stream outlets.

However, the growing anti-Semitic undertone is not to my liking. Even if Muslim invaders were really facilitated by Spanish Jews, I fail to see what relevance this has to present days.

Jews in Europe are the first victims of the Islamic invasion, and even if some Jewish individuals in the European elite are foolishly aiding this dangerous process, the Jewish community in general is not to be blamed.

I believe it is time that Europeans take responsibility over the reckless actions of their leadership, instead of trying to blame others. And of course - it's time they take action to reverse the process, instead of talking.

Anonymous said...

"the core principle of nationalism, namely that different peoples should live in different lands. When you violate that principle, bad things start to happen."

sorry but that "principle" contradicts all historical and civilizational experience.
When Anglo-Saxons moved to Britain, then what "bad things started to happen"?

now on your systematic anti-Semitism.
I agree with "mementoil" user.

that is it, - when someone draws selective examples from ancient times when everybody enslaved everybody, to capitalize on "A enslaved B".

once I tried to a comment on BNP site.
but I wanted to check them.
I completed my comment by writing

"My mother is Jewish.
My father is Jewish.
I am Jewish."

BNP moderator banned me - immediately.

these were the last words of Daniel Pearl.
he was decapitated - immediately.

don't make your site like BNP.

Anonymous said...

to 'mementoil' and Anonymous @20:17: CZ has quoted from other historical sources and drawn certain conclusions. It can also be pointed out that in our lifetimes it is not Jews as individuals per se, but as well organised bodies in politics, the judiciary, academia and the media, who have sought to restrict our freedoms of speech and belief. This is the core of the problem and the reason, I presume, for CZ's posting this thread. The conduct of relations between Christians and Jews in Europe is constantly, and consistently, presented in a biased manner with all facts being filtered through a prism which often eliminates any facts which would despoil or call into question the presumed 'collective guilt' of Europeans and the presumed innocence of Jews. Because of this, the European response, as individuals and as nations, to Islam and Moslems is always subliminally associated with the supposed injustice of Christian treatment, and relations, with Jews. I do not believe this is accidental because I see this issue also in terms of 'theology': Islam (or, if you wish, Mohamed and some of his original followers --- former Jewish rabbis, as the hadiths mention --- and those who later codified Islamic texts and laws, also former Jews amongst them) borrows from Judaism certain tenets which we deem highly negative: a superior and hostile view of non-adherents; a set of laws which disadvantage non-adherents; a parallel system of jurisprudence which historically operates in opposition, and sometimes secretly, to the established national system; devices of deceit {Maimonides codified part of Talmudic practice and law but the Jewish version of taqiyya pre-dates him and Islam as pre-Christ}; an approval and encouragement of negativity to non-adherents which does include violence; paedophilia; lesser rights for females; financial injustice to the outside {usury}; slavery.

This isn't a site dedicated to discussing similarities and differences between ideologies as 'faiths' but understanding that there are strong ties may help to explain to people also why our response to Islamisation is so muted and presently ineffectual. This is not bigotry; it is an attempt to discuss, analyse and criticise history and ideas and opinions.

Cheradenine Zakalwe said...

Europe is being islamised for two key reasons. The first is that government policy is based on the principle of anti-nationalism. This principle, expressed in various ideologies like Communism and multiculturalism, has disproportionately been promoted by Jews living outside their own ancestral homeland. There is no doubt of this. It is factually irrefutable.

The best response to talk about it frankly. When this fact is generally acknowledged, including by Jews themselves, and condemned by the Jews who don't agree with it, of whom I am sure there are many, there will be no need for me to continue talking about it. Until then, I will indeed continue to talk about it. So for those of you who are made uncomfortable by this, I suggest you remove your links to this site and/or visit other blogs where your attention will not be drawn to such unpleasant facts.

The second reason for the islamisation of Europe is that Europeans themselves have been morally intimidated into a state where they are unwilling to assert, defend or even articulate their own interests. The intimidation is done by levelling accusations of wickedness cast in various forms, such as racism, islamophobia, antisemitism, bigotry, etc. Any non-European people would simply laugh at these accusations. Unfortunately, Europeans have the most highly developed ethical standards of any set of peoples in history and thus these accusations have proved diabolically effective in setting off what is, in effect, a moral civil war among them.

What's striking to me is that those who deplore the fact that others respond to unpleasant facts about Muslims by levelling an accusation of irrational wickedness ("Islamophobia") - exhibit exactly the same behaviour themselves when challenged. As always, the good people will cling to the criterion of objective truth and the bad people will urge that it be abandoned and replaced with emotion. Facts are facts. We cannot allow objective truth to be drowned out by absurd accusations of wickedness.

I will not be intimidated. Even if reviled by all the world, including the legions of cowed Europeans, I will speak up for the interests of European peoples and their right to exist, as vigorously as the Jews defend their peoplehood and their right to maintain it. Someone needs to, even if it's only one person.

As for the comment about Anglo-Saxons, are you serious? Do you really think that Anglo-Saxons just peacefully moved into Britain? You are aware that they conducted coastal raids? That the DNA evidence is consistent with females having been appropriated by the invaders while the males were killed?

In any case, even if they had just peacefully moved in to vacant parts of the country, it doesn't refute what I had said. The point is that when different peoples are sharing the same physical place, their conflicts of interest will give rise to unpleasantness. If they weren't actually sharing the same physical space, interacting with one another, it is not relevant to the point I made.

In ancient times, everyone didn't enslave everyone. Generally, there were prohibitions on enslaving people of the same religious belief, even if that prohibition was not always observed in practice.

So, in contrast to what the multicultists say about racial ideology having created the basis for slavery, the truth is that it was a sense of religious difference, not racial difference, that did so.

Anonymous said...

on Anglo-Saxon example I just tried to show that isolationist principles never worked in practice.

the whole logic of modern civilization implies collaboration between schools - artistic, scientifc, medical, technological.

you can't remove all these high-IQ Chinese, Japanese and South Koreans from Western universities, laboratories, and symphonic orchestras.
they came here to work, with love, not to conquer or to live as parasites.

on your comment:
"anti-nationalism, ... expressed in various ideologies like Communism and multiculturalism, has disproportionately been promoted by Jews living outside their own ancestral homeland"

fair enough.
but hey, who forced Europeans to accept these "calamitous" principles?
maybe they had no brains, to put forward some viable alternatives?
don't forget, that was time when everybody was fascinated by the success of America, a nation of immigrants.
the matter is, nationalists have lost the competition of ideas. and lost forever.

in general, people want to live among those whom they trust most, and today that doesn't always mean ethnic but rather civil uniformity, - whatever might be a result, genetically.

Marxism, Hitlerian Euro-international, Soviet and EU multiculturalism were and are, failed attempts to overcome xenophobic limitations, bogus brotherhoods. All tried to succeed for the expense of somebody else's freedom and/or resources. zero-sum, monkey style.

which bring us back to nationalism. :)
it has the same potential to become menace, as anti-nationalism.
we must be civilized, first.

chimoio said...

according to the talmud,non jews are non human, "cattle" for the use of , the koran has a variation of the same theme,is it really a surprise that they,jew and muslim, have collaborated in the recent past to control, use, kill or otherwise do harm to the goy and the kufr? antisemitism? islamaphobia? they make the rest of us "bigots"
look like rank amateurs in comparison.

Reality Check said...

No greatere example of this is the current Obama zeal to ally with the jihadists in Syria, and that the ADL and AIPAC are urging him to strike Assad, who has been more tolerant of minorities than the Sunni and Shia Muslims. We truly are doomed to repeat history.

Anonymous said...


I agree, Tora is unpleasant book, many Jews were and are unpleasant types.

however, what might be more unpleasant than to kill somebody and take his possessions.

I challenge you to find at least one historical fact of mass murder of Christians by Jews.

on the other hand, the first recorded pogrom of Jews by Christians in Europe was in 1011, and then the list is as long as history.

fortunately it is all over now, - ended in 1945.
so what is the reason for these posts.
wasn't it enough, do you want to start again?

mementoil said...

Have it your way!

You want to promote some conspiracy theory, as though Jews are secretly collaborating in order to Islamize Europe? Very well! let's see how it benefits you:

First, You will alienate the Europeans who are suffering from Islamic violence, and yet are reluctant to be associated with Neo-Nazis, who hate anyone who is not "pure".

Second, you will alienate those Jews who identify the danger of the Islamic invasion, and lose their support.

Third, your limited energy will be spent on chasing ghosts, instead of addressing the real issue and dealing with it.

I want to remind you, my dear Europeans - The Jews have Israel to take refuge, in case you decide to murder us all once more. You, on the other hand, have no where to run.

So please wake up and smell the (Turkish) coffee.

Anonymous said...

dear "Reality Check", your thoughts are a mess.

first of all, can you point at any call from ADL/AIPAC official urging USA to strike Assad?

second, Obama, with all his faults, tried to avoid directly helping jihadists in Syria.
one of his calculations is that jihadists are sworn enemies of Israel.

third, Assad's Alawi sect is a MINORITY in Syria, which have been INTOLERANT and OPPRESSING Sunni majority for decades.
because Alawis are the minority, they needed powerful allies. now it is Iran, Assad is defacto Iranian satrap.

both sides in Sunni vs Shia civil war hate Jews, even more than Christians. Jews have nothing to gain from jihadi victory in Syria.

Josep Trinxeria said...

I agree with CZ. It is not "anti-semite" to comment about the proven role of some (many, but not all) jews in the multiculturalist agenda (without getting too obsessed with that, because the biggest part of the fault is ours, for being too weak and naive). There's nothing bad about this, the same way that it isn't "anti-europeist" to speak the truth too about the role of some among the 'european' elite who are doing the same too driven by greed and self-hatred. I must say that I support the jews having a land of their own and most of them living there in peace (nevertheless, I would prefer the present state of Israel ceasing to be a criminal platform in so many aspects, but that would be part of another debate).
I am a nationalist myself too. Obviously, when someone says that I understand that he is not advocating autarchy, and certainly most do not. I envision a world of peoples living together, in contact and with intense relationships, but nevertheless preserving their basic identity (I certainly despise those ‘nationalists’ who, see all their kinsmen as the only “true brothers”, a bit like communist who fantasize with all workers being brothers who would kiss each other all day long if they could).
There is no such thing as human beings in the vacuum. From the zero moment you would have a world populated exclusively with let's say a "post-racial" population, differences would start to arise in every corner of the world once again. The solution is a world of (true) nation-states, with countries like mine (Catalonia) or any other who wishes so can self-determinate and become a state too. European nations (at least, I don’t want to give lessons to the rest of the world) should be run through a sort of a 'national' true democracy that should give the majority the power and the control over those elites seeking their personal interest instead anything else. Not a "democracy" for 'equality' and mediocrity, but for community improvement. Some sort of pan-european real ‘Union’ should be desirable too.

mony said...

the talmud, in contrast to the tora or the koran is a book of argument between contradicting opinion and is a not book of gospel truth. so using it to say jews are treating non-jews as sub human is not correct. in any case, i can't see the manifestation of this statement in reality. i don't see jews teaching their kids to treat christians as non human. on the contrary. in israel the majority is very much open to the world and identify itself as a branch of westran culture.
i rarely agree with CZ on his generalizations about jews . i would be happy if CZ will understand that jews r a nation with variety of opinions and stands. i don't think CZ is anti-semite and i even share his resentment toward the the left wing thinkers which r jews. what i always emphasize on this matter is that jews don't behade other jews over ideological argument and rarely u say that jews in europe taking a stand out of their judaism in contrary to islam. same as christians which are so diversified and no one, when trying to argue against christians is blaming them that their religion is the driving force behind their action and thought..

Cheradenine Zakalwe said...

It's not a conspiracy theory that Jews have been disproportionately involved in promoting immigration and diversity and denigrating nationalism. It's an obvious truth that can easily be demonstrated based on objective data sources, as can their disproportionate involvement in promoting Communism. The islamisation of Europe is a secondary, unintended effect of this.

The healthy approach is to acknowledge this problem and openly address it. It is your inability to acknowledge fault that makes this ugly. You exhibit the same inability to acknowledge fault that Muslims do.

Incidentally, I would say this has the effect of spreading the culpability. If some Jews promoted diversity and other Jews denounced them for it, acknowledging the problems it caused, then we would have a limited problem involving some Jews, not Jews in general. If some Jews promote diversity and other Jews fail to denounce them for it but stigmatise any attempt to draw attention to the problem as a sign of irrational wickedness or pathology, then we have a much more general problem.

I am not interested in how other people react to what I say. I am only interested in whether what I say is true or not. I am happy to listen to disputes about factual truth. If factual truth alienates people, then the fault is with them, not with the truth, or the person who brought it to their attention.


Well done CZ,It is very re-assuring to see some-one stand his corner without being browbeaten.What is required is that we must separate in order to unite,polyglots do not make for order,peace or human advancement,an English adage says good fences make good neighbours.

Anonymous said...

if you love truth so much, then consider this.

first you draw the evidence of Jews being secretive hateful sect enslaving Christians.

then you draw the evidence of Jews promoting diversity and denigrating nationalism.

these are quite different things, but in both cases you somehow find a way to blame the Jews.

which leads us to the main question.
this discussion is only relevant in this context - what about here and now.

are the Jews all members of secretive sect, collaborating with Muslims, using the "diversity" to water down European national identities?
is that the truth - do they want to destroy and dominate?
is there "Jewish Question" in Europe again?

mementoil said...

CZ is obviously completely detached from the popular opinion of the vast majority of Jews in the world - the Israelis.

Israelis in general detest left wing multi-cultural propagandists (especially the Jewish ones), and denounce them regularly. CZ would perhaps be aware of that, if he had bothered to read the Israeli media (have a look at the comment sections, they are the one which usually reflect the true opinions, since the Israeli media is infested by those leftists just like the European one).

I'm afraid that the "historical facts", which CZ regards as so precious, are simply irrelevant. We should not waste our time playing a "blame game". What we should be doing is look towards the future. And in the future, Israel, as the only western nation who has ever truly confronted Islamic radicalism and terrorism, can be Europe's best ally.

So what do you want to do? delve into a futile academic discussion regarding the historical role of Jews in the Islamization of Europe, or start forming alliances in order to counteract this calamity?

You are not in the academia, sir. This is the real world, now.

Cheradenine Zakalwe said...

As I have said before in repeated posts, the problem is not Jews per se, nor even conscious ill will. The problem is the empathy gap between distinct peoples. If peoples share the same living space, this empathy gap will create problems because one group will perceive its own distinctness and pursue its own interests, which may conflict with the interests of the other group. And all of this happens spontaneously, through a differential sense of empathy, not through conscious malevolence most of the time. This is why nationalism, meaning different peoples living in distinct lands, is the best way to organise the world.

I have repeatedly drawn the distinction between diaspora Jews and Israeli Jews. The problem has nothing to do with Jews directly. The issue is between nationalists and anti-nationalists. Diaspora Jews, living outside of their own ancestral homeland, naturally have a greater sympathy with anti-nationalism because they feel threatened by nationalism. Israelis, obviously, do not.

I am unstinting in my support for Israel because it embodies the principle of nationalism. I want the countries of Europe to be like Israel is.

chimoio said...

@ anonymous, in reply to your "challenge"
how about the bolshevik revolution? the leaders of which were mostly jews,definitely financed by jews,
resulted in the mass murder of millions of orthodox christians and other non jews.

Anonymous said...

"chimoio" 10:16

that is another piece of anti-Semitic mythology.

bolsheviks got money mostly from robberies.
actually, they needed not much money, as they had popular support in poor and lumpen classes.
Lenin at some stage was financed by Germans.

one clearly Jewish party during that time was Bund, it was swiftly dissolved and not known to be engaged in any ethnic cleansing of non-Jews.

bolshevik terror was against RICH CLASSES not against non-Jews.

in GULAG all types of "enemies of the people" were imprisoned and killed, including Jewsish urban intelligentsia. Stalin even created the "Jewish Autonomous Area" on the Far East, to have a place where to exile Jews from European part.

if you think about Jewish death squads shooting non-Jews fo being non-Jews, there was no such thing, even close.

Anonymous said...

Someone on this thread was discounting the idea that Jewish organisations in the US are supporting Obama's determination to bomb Syria(ns), thereby likely starting another World War:

The Washington Post, one of the most liberal newspapers in America, had an article up on 4 September that AIPAC, the Zionist Organization of America, Americans for Peace Now, the Anti-Defamation League and the Simon Wiesenthal Center (all referred to by WP as Jewish organisations) are strongly supporting Obama's war plans against Syria, and are critical of hesitation over initiating an attack on Syria, rather predictably framing this in terms of Europe and America having supposedly failed to deal with gas attacks against Jews in Europe during WWII (the Jews callously ignoring the fact that the Allies were fighting principally to defend their own peoples and nations).

Anonymous said...

20 responses, IDF internet trols?

Anonymous said...

Anonymous 13:49:

1) majority of countries occupied by Nazis during WW2, were urged to form their own SS division. That was the part of building national governing cadres. the idea was, to bind by blood. France, Belgium, Bosnia, etc. even Ukraine had it. Not Poland. Not Serbia. One of the first duties of these SS divisions was to send their Jews to extermination camps.

2) AIPAC and so on - represent their members, and that is most likely very small % of American Jews.

3) but they and Israel have all reasons, aside of usage of nerve gase, to dislike Assad who sheltered, armed and financed literally all known anti-Israeli terrorist organizations, for 30+ years. Syria also started wars in 1967 and 1973.
these days, the very same jihadi terrorists that Assad dispatched to Israel and against Americans in Iraq - for years - are attacking Assad himself, mercilessly. this is poetic justice.

4) my personal opininon as a Jew, and a Westerner, about Shia-Sunni war in Syria - plague on both their houses.
but here is another thought, without long-range missiles, air force, MRLS artillery, and chemical weapons, Assad will be definitely less dangerous neighbour to Israel. and to Europe. and also there will be no risk of this stuff falling to the hands of Sunni jihadis after Assad falls.
so I rather support these strikes, as well as striking al-qaeda in Syria or wherever they are.

I wouild also like to see Western armies going to Syria to protect Christians and non-muslims who suffer from war crimes there.

I would like to see Europe free from Sharia and from other types of tribal barbarism.
oh and I would also like to see less anti-Semites in Europe. if possible, please.

Anonymous said...

This post reminds me of the typical antisemitic cry, why doesn't the Jew love me, despite the fact that I beat him up and humiliate him daily.
Expecting the Spanish Jew to be loyal to his Visigoth Catholic oppressors is like expecting a Jew to be loyal to a Nazi Germany. The fact that Spanish Jews didn't realize that the Muslims would turn out to be as much of the bastards as the Catholics at the time of no Internet and 24 hour TV news can be forgivable.

The Spanish Catholics brought the lack of Jewish loyalty on themselves by persecuting, robbing, killing and forcibly converting them.

Jews are very loyal subjects in every country were they are treated well. Actually, Jewish contribution to any country is so great that they were usually invited if a country wanted to jump-start their economy and development. But, just like in the Biblical story of Joseph in Egypt, once Jews become too successful, the envy of the locals kicks in, and it doesn't take long for the history to repeat itself.

The Jews of Spain were very successful, literate and wealthy. They became so ' assimilated' that they had entered all areas of the life, that is until their Catholic kings, supported by their Catholic Church and followed by their Catholic neighbors decided that the Jews were too rich. Same story repeats itself for over 1000 years all over Europe.

Do Jews support more egalitarian and less xenophobic societies? Yes. Wouldn't you if you lived as a Christian in Israel or Muslim country? Jews had a good taste of European nationalism, which resulted in the murder of the six million of the Jewish men, women and children ( but you don't really want to hear that again)

Yes, Jews like liberal immigration laws because you have shot the doors in the faces of the Jewish refugees during the Holocaust, and besides, we Jews know to keep our suitcases on ready, in case we have to look for a new safe heaven.

It is our governments who cannot tell the difference between a Jewish refugee and a Muslim invaders, and it is you who cannot differentiate
between the obviously lacking in any influence AIPAC and the Saudi and Qatar and other Arab influences, purchased with very generous retirement plans for our Presidents, Secretaries of State and other I influential people.

And while you pour out your antisemitic woes, you probably are surprised and outraged that you have no Jewish support for them.
I hope, that we are not forced to choose again between genocidal Muslims and genocidal Christians.

Anonymous said...

Another example:

Cheradenine Zakalwe said...

Amazing that you can both simultaneously acknowledge that Jews have indeed been disproportionately involved in pushing immigration and diversity and bringing ruin to European societies, while claiming that any non-Jew who points this out is "antisemitic", thus suffering from a strange pathology much like the "Islamophobia" those who don't appreciate being bombed and terrorised are claimed to suffer from.

People have a right to expect that individuals who want to live in their society will merge with the rest of the population. When they insist on maintaining their own distinctness, favouring their own in-group in economic relations, excluding outsiders, coming to dominate and control whole sectors of the economy, you'll find that it tends to provoke a hostile reaction. That's just human nature, nothing to do with Spaniards or Christians or Europeans. The same would happen anywhere. Living in someone's else country while resolutely maintaining your own separateness from them is not moral.

Europeans have never had a problem acknowledging culpability. Indeed modern European culture is characterised by a deranged repentance for almost everything Europeans have ever been. I have yet to see any acknowledgement of fault from Jews. And I don't expect to see any. It doesn't surprise me in the least.

The ability of Europeans to acknowledge fault, to engage in moral introspection, to learn from their mistakes is the sign of their moral superiority to Jews, Muslims or any other people. It is also, tragically, their greatest weakness, which non-European peoples, with a predator's instinct for sensing vulnerability, have learned to exploit to their advantage.

Your insinuations of wickedness have no effect on me.

Anonymous said...

"When they insist on maintaining their own distinctness, favouring their own in-group in economic relations, excluding outsiders, coming to dominate and control whole sectors of the economy.."

well, another poster has mentioned "being successful", which is not exactly the same as "to dominate and control" and so on.
you exaggerate.

and at least I never said that it is good idea to push "immigration and diversity" BLINDLY.
anyone, Jew or non-Jew, should be judged by merit.

and you as nationalist say the person should be judged by blood, that is distinctoin.

when hiring someone for the job, you will put down talented foreigner and hire less talented native - that won't benefit your nation.
you loose twice, first you've lost the best worker. second, that better worker has gone to your competitor who is less xenophobic.
what you preserve this way, is your nation's mediocrity.

Anonymous said...

The Washington Post article "Pro-Israel and Jewish groups strongly back military strike against Syria", September 4, written by Matea Gold and Holly Yeager, states that the Jewish groups listed are the most influential pro-Israel and Jewish groups in America backing the Obama administration's planned Syria attack and that these groups, representing 52 national Jewish agencies in the US, are mounting a robust lobbying effort on Capitol Hill to convince US legislators to support these attacks and are specifically relating them to the "holocaust"; the readers' comments are critical of these groups which are essentially representing a foreign government's interests in the US and one reader links to major Israeli press which says Israel wants the US and Europe to fight this war for Israel.

chimoio said...

@anonymous 11.64 so trotsky wasn't held at the docks boarding a ship canada on his way back to russia with wads of cash to bankroll the revolution given to him by the banker chase, a jew, almost two thirds of the leadership were not jews. so in effect jews can not be gangsters thieves or murderes, to say such things about jews is "antisemitic" and as we all know,well we should know, as we are continually reminded of it, no other people on the planet has suffered at the hands of others as have "the jews"
I can think of a few...but hey what do I know? even thinking that probably means I'm an "antisemite" hhhhmmmmm antisemitic islamophobe
yeahh..I'm probably one of them.

Eric Dondero said...

Cherandenine, it is LIBERAL Jews in the U.S. who push for multi-cultism, and other collectivist causes, NOT US LIBERTARIAN JEWS. We are fighting back against the liberals in Judaism.

Eric Dondero, Publisher

P.S., And we carry your stuff at LR on occassion. Questioning Jews from time to time, is not "anti-Semitic." In fact, as a Jew, I often wonder why in the bloody hell we didn't fight back more against the Nazis in the 1930s.

vaevictu said...

CZ omits the role of Count Julian who instigated the invasion in the first place, as well as failing to mentioned the collaboration of Count Theodemir of Murcia SE Spain and Count Cassius of NE Spain - a Visigoth and Hispano-Roman respectively.

Persecuted Christians in the near east also collaborated particulary the Monphysites and Monothelites and against the Byzantines who had persecuted them.

As a rule all persecuted groups welcomed and assisted the Muslim invaders. CZ has pointed out only one group displaying an obvious motive and preventing an actual understanding of how Spain or other places were conquered.

Anonymous said...

Again, Russian revolution wasn't Jewish project.
Communists destroyed churches and synagogues alike.
Among leadership the % of Jews was high, not the best place I agree. Main reason is, there were no options for Jews on the other side of civil war, as the Whites were zoologically anti-Semitic. Communists were internationalists.

Jews are over-represented in other places as well. Exact Sciences. Nobel Prizes. Manhattan Project. Movie industry. Not all of that is bad.

Israel is "disproportinate" state.
By the number of achievements, and by the number of enemies, per capita.

Jews are "disproportionate". Get over.

Anonymous said...

Let’s look at the subject from an historical point of view. At the time the Muslims had invaded the South of Spain they had already gained a high level civilization (the Islam of these days has nothing to do with the primitive Salafy’s of today!). The Caliphs had invited to their court scientists, artists, philosophers, mathematicians etc. They had even started to learn again all about the knowledge of the old world as the Greek and Roman. At the other hand Europe was deep in the Medieval World and reigned by the blood thirsty Catholic Church who had one big hobby: to kill as many as possible people with different views and b) keeping the followers ignorant and primitive. For people who did not share the ideas of the Catholic church was Europe at that time a death trap. It stayed so, till after the day’s of the Reformation. Think about the Cathares (France), The Waldens (France), the ancient Gnostic church in Ierland before the Catholic Church took over and forced it’s followers to flee to the Faroe Islands. The Spanish Inquisition and not to forget the people of Johan Hoes in Bohemia; who were slaughtered by the hundred thousands etc. Looking at this point of view it is not so strange that the Jews had chosen the side of the Moors who had invaded Spain.

Full Auto said...

All the invasions of Britain were all made by a common race -- the white race. People sharing a common race and differing only ethnically can and have assimilated with little difficulty.

What we have now is different. Under the aid of our corrupted institutions, the way has been paved for the colonisation of our lands by racial aliens.

That Jews in high places encourage this cannot be denied. Nevertheless, it is an error to blame all Jews. There are some who are on our side. I know some personally.

It must always be remembered that the Jews involved in the "enrichment" of our lands with racial aliens could do nothing without a willing and far larger number of non-Jewish Leftists. These people are betraying their own people and have the greater sin.

Full Auto said...

A nation of immigrants. Yes, white immigrants. Do not get confused. All of America's civilising institutions -- goverment, legal systems, academia, etc are white institutions. America was developed by and for whites.

That they are now allowing into their country massive numbers of non-whites will be their undoing.

America has given Europeans of very false image of multicultural/multiracial bliss when nothing could be further from the truth.

Before the doorway to diversity hell was opened in the 1960s, ALL of Americas primary civil institutions were under the control of whites to the tune of 99%.

Only after the civil rights movement in the 1960s did America start experiencing the wonderful effects of (forced) racial diversity. The results are telling and are anything but harmonious coexistence. Sadly, the Jewish leadership, as in the case of Spain, has a history of picking the WRONG side to be on. Whites all over the globe will eventually regain their own homelands and expell the enrichers. This will not be pleasant for the Jews who have cast their lot against us.

Full Auto said...

Early Christians were slaughtered by the Romans, fed to lions, etc etc, with the full consent of Jewish leadership. The apostle Paul was actually hunting down Christians for execution when he converted to Christianity himself.

Today, the greatest adversary Christians have in America is from Jewish-led organisations like the ACLU, SPLC, ADL, and so on.

Full Auto said...

Ashkenazi Jews are racially white. This means that we share an enormous amount of DNA. They are NOT racial aliens and we should have no problems living with our own kind so-to-speak, even despite our religious differences. We also have common enemies -- blacks hate Jews just as much as any other white in America and murder/rape them when opportunity arises, Latinos consider Jews as whites, and though Muslims have a particular hatred for Jews, they are also our enemies.

We should be working together but, frankly, it is the majority of Jews who will not have it. They cling to their insane, trance-like beliefs in some racial utopia where all people coexist in brotherly love. They refuse to face racial realities. Nations have borders for reasons.

Rebekah said...

WHO were these pharisees?
WHO were the Herod's?
Who was the Herod's father Antipater, crept in during the time of John Hyrcannus whom was the last TRUE Judahite leader.....under Roman rule in Judah, which this area was later renamed JudEA to accept these strangers placed into rule...
Via assassination, infiltration and bribery to INSTALL THE ENEMY! To rule over TRUE Israelites, there....
And YES! Our Bible is chock FULL of conspiracy and in identifying OUR ENEMY!
WHO were THESE enemies to True Jacob Israel, to King David, TO SETH and ALL! Their bloodline marching thru every battle in the Bible and Apocryphal Books.....Who at the time of Esau and his sin, and in the time of THE Son of Man walking this earth....WERE EDOM, EDOMITES, IdumEAns.....
If you dont know the His Story of the era, the players, the battles, the WITNESS of OUR Bible events....most all truth IS LOST!
Josephus, THE Judahite Historian, the greek, and the testimony of the Romans and Scripture tells us of this His Story. A virtual WHO IS WHO....(AND WHO IS THE )ew....)

WHY ALL the pages upon pages, and chapter after chapter telling, describing who is who in OUR Bible?
Which is the Book OF The Generations of Awdawm Genesis 5:1
Why the extensive genealogy, the lists of warring and enemy tribes among and in battle against THE peoples and the posterity of Abraham, iSAAC.....IN Issac's Name THY SEED SHALL BE CALLED!(1)
These many enemies OF Jacob, TRUE Israel?
WHY did OUR Kinsman Redeemer call them out! On every page of the NT....the OT OUR Prophets.....repeatedly SCREAM! The same....

AND THIS! Is what churchianity of today purposely! Avoids....bringing about the prophesied and current GREAT APOSTASY! THE Great Falling Away.
NO true Study....for the many.
NO APPROVAL from Our Father, and THE Son.
And all this is the hand of nachash and of the WICKED ONE thrown to this earth, in its sin.
WHAT saith the Holy Scriptures?

1. Such names as, Scythian, Ishaak, Sak, Saka, Cimmerians (Khumru), Parthians, Ostrogoth, Visigoth, Angles, Russ, Goth, Saxons, Jutes, Germans, etc., were the names these historians used to describe the migrating Israelite tribes. There’s a reason why the original name for Spain was Iberia, which means “land of the Hebrews.” Paul wrote his epistle to these Hebrews. Pontius Pilate claimed descent from this group, although he did not know he was a dispersed Hebrew either. The word British means “Covenant Man” or “Covenant People.” It is clear that the original inhabitants of modern Europe who trekked through the Pass of Israel, the Caucasus Mountains, and these Israelites whom Abode in Ships..... Knew they were Israelites, but this awareness lapsed and also resurfaced within the centuries of 2700 years.

0jr said...

sounds like the same thing today except that the wasps zionists are helping

Anonymous said...

An example of mass murder of Christians by Jews, try this one for size! :)

Anonymous said...

Europe is being invaded this is not Muslim refugees, but Muslim invaders! It is amazing to see Germans giving these invaders, rides, cash and food, what kind of fool welcomes invaders who want to destroy their nation? Hungary is doing the correct things to preserve the Hungarian way of life, although I don't feel that they are going far enough. These Muslim invaders should be greeted with flame throwers, landmines, strafing, electrified fences, and machine gun fire. This invasion will be the end of all Europe within 5 or 6 years, and the European people's children and grand children will curse the day that these Islamic invaders were allowed into Europe.

Anonymous said...

I was for many years a Christian Zionist-even gave money to Israel. Then I found that Jews had been thrown out of 100+ countries, which sent me on years of research and led me to become an X-Christian Zionist. If my people were thrown out of 100+ countries I would at least begin to wonder why. Human nature is to be suspicious of strangers-for good reason. But if they seem friendly, eat with you and don't go insane at the thought of intermarriage, after a few generations the new people blend in. My own family were immigrants to US-by the third generation, we were all Americans. Why? We did not arrogantly stay aloof from the people in the host country. Jews historically have done just that, over and over again.

And yes, Israel has facilitated ISIS-treated them medically, as they admit. And how is it that these rabid Islamic extremists have not harmed a single Jew (not that I want them to) but have slaughtered people from every other religion?

I am opposed to killing human beings-Jews included-but isn't it time you started asking yourselves some of these questions?

Robert Almgren said...

Oyyy weeyy the jews doesnt like to be outed like this!

Harry Worth said...

Who else were kicked out of most European countries?
They are Marrano Jews and they control America and Europe!
Jesuits perfected Communism in Uruguay, in the 17th/18th century!
They ghost wrote Mein Kampf for Hitler!
Google: The Rulers of Evil by Tupper Saussy!
Google: The RED Mass and The BLUE Mass.
See how the Vatican controls America.
Only Jews and Roman Catholics on the Supreme Court, in America.



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